Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

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    kowalski
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    Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  kowalski on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:51 am

    All right, a bit tired from all the tournament reports and all the decklist posts so today we are gonna discuss a strategy a litle more advanced. I'm talking abou making specific bad-ass cards miss the timing. First of all, what is missing the timing?
    http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Missing_the_Timing
    In other words when a "when this card...you can" type of activation criteria is NOT the last thing in a resolving chain (or even in situations without a chain), then that effect with that criteria misses its activation timing.

    A recent example is Soul Taker vs Lightpulsar Dragon which has made Soul Taker so popular this format. First, Soul Taker's effect sends Lightpulsar dragon to grave. However, it hasn't resolved yet. The +1000 part of the effect needs to resolve too before anything else can happen in the game. After it has, it's too late for LightPulsar Dragon to activate its effect.

    But there will be many cases when it will not be that simple.You might not have a soul-taker available and therefore you will have to figure out on your own how to make such cards miss timing.

    First of all, what you need to do, is find the card that would make such an effect trigger itself. Let's take Lightpulsar's example. If his Summon is responed with torrential tribute, then TT's effect is the last thing that happened, and therefore Lightpulsar's effect would activate. However you can make him miss timing by activating that card as chain link of 2 or higher in a chain. For example, they Summon LP Dragon, you respond with mst (targeting anything, even your torrential tribute) upon its summon and then you chain torrential tribute to mst. Resolving backwards, Torrential Tribute will resolve first, popping Lighpulsar dragon. His effect would activate at that point, but he would have to "wait", because mst needs to resolve now (nothing can "intervene" in a resolving chain). And when mst has finished resolving, LP Dragon's activation criteria no longer meet with the game state! Cool, eh? Similarly, when Elemental HERO the Shining declares an attack, you can respond with mst on the attack, and then chain mirror force. He will miss the timing in such case.

    Another bad-ass card which is vulnerable to missing the timing is Geartown. Let's do the same again:
    Step 1: Finding which card triggers its effect to special summon an AG monster. The most obvious is mst.
    Step 2: Placing it as chain link of 2 or higher in a chain. This is far easier than LP example, because mst has no activation criteria like torrential and can be chained to anything but a counter trap. You could chain it Reborn, Centipede effect, even Geartwon itslef and it will cause it to miss timing. Nice way to avoid a 3000 beater whose attacks can't be responded too ;-). Talking about Gadjiltron of course...

    So next time, when you see a card like that, make sure to see if you have a way out like the ones mentioned. It will make your dueling life quite easier Smile


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    Nemessie

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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Nemessie on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:31 am

    So let me get this straight. Geartown causes itself to miss timing? It cannot activate its effect due to the resolution of its own effect?



    And I think this topic explained to me the case with Heart of the Underdog. It had confused me because I knew Activations of effects cannot cause effects to miss timing. I had confused activation and resolution.
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  kowalski on Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:47 am

    If you are talking about destroying your geartown to activate another, then yes, you could say that. You first destroy your geartown and THEN activate the other...First geartown's effect cannot activate between these two actions and after the second has finished resolving, then it's too late...missed the timing. However, if you set your new geartown (or any other field), then that set and the destruction of previous geartown are considered to happen at the same time, so it will not miss timing. The same applies when your opponent activates a new field while you control geartown.


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    Nemessie

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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Nemessie on Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:12 pm

    I am talking about MST at the activation of Geartown. Also, if my opponent activates Solemn Warning, and I negate it with Solemn Judgment, when the chain has resolved, can he then use Bottomless for that same summon?
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    tzaflidisp
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  tzaflidisp on Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:15 pm

    I am not sure about the geartown but i now for sure that you can activate the bottomless after that chain
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    Reaper of the Cards
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Reaper of the Cards on Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:39 pm

    Nemessie wrote:I am talking about MST at the activation of Geartown. Also, if my opponent activates Solemn Warning, and I negate it with Solemn Judgment, when the chain has resolved, can he then use Bottomless for that same summon?

    Who said you can Warning Geartown???


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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  web kid 45 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:39 pm

    Reaper of the Cards wrote:
    Nemessie wrote:I am talking about MST at the activation of Geartown. Also, if my opponent activates Solemn Warning, and I negate it with Solemn Judgment, when the chain has resolved, can he then use Bottomless for that same summon?

    Who said you can Warning Geartown???

    I think he was talking about someone warning this MST that would destroy Geartown.
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  tzaflidisp on Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:30 pm

    Reaper of the Cards wrote:
    Nemessie wrote:I am talking about MST at the activation of Geartown. Also, if my opponent activates Solemn Warning, and I negate it with Solemn Judgment, when the chain has resolved, can he then use Bottomless for that same summon?

    Who said you can Warning Geartown???

    I think he's talking about something else
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    kowalski
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  kowalski on Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:19 am

    Let's settle this:
    You cannot chain warning to geartown
    If you chain mst to geartown, the latter will miss the timing for the reasons i explained...
    You most definetely cannot chain warning to mst
    You can use bottomless in that case, since the summon is sucessful after judgment has finished resolving


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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Nemessie on Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:03 am

    Lol guys. Let me get this straight for you.


    At first I said that, according to Kowalski, if MST destroys Geartown at activation, last thing to happen was the resolution of itself, so itself causes itself to miss timing.

    Then, I made another irrelevant question, and that is why I used "Also". Now for that other question, can he use another Solemn Warning after the chain or at least as another chain to Judgment?
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  tzaflidisp on Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:21 am

    he can't use another warning
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    Zane Truesdale
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Zane Truesdale on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:10 am

    Warning has nothing to do with it. You can't use Warning to begin with. Since it's not the card activation that summons Gadjiltron (or w/e Ancient gear you summon), but the activation of the card's effect. Adn Warning can only hit cards that summon on activation, like Monster Reborn or Call of the Haunted. And no, Geartown cannot cause itself to miss timing, since it has to remain face-up on the field in order to resolve, and since MST destroys it, it won't resolve, meaning it can summon a Ancient Gear.
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Nemessie on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:43 am

    As I said... The Warning question has nothing to do with Geartown, it is irrelevant. I was talking about any monster summon. As for this

    "Geartown cannot cause itself to miss timing, since it has to remain face-up on the field in order to resolve, and since MST destroys it, it won't resolve, meaning it can summon a Ancient Gear.

    It collides with what kowalski said. I am starting to get really confused right now.
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    Zane Truesdale
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Zane Truesdale on Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:50 am

    Let me put it this way:
    If I activateNecrovalley, while you have Rising Air Current on the field, and you chain MST on Necrovalley, your field spell isn't destroyed, now is it? That is because mine doesn't resolve. If mine would resolve, as Kowalski indicated, then chaining MST would not prevent your own Field Spell from dying. The point in this matter is, that Field Spells are just like continuous effects. They need to remain face-up on the field in order to resolve. That's why you can chain Call of the Haunted on Necrovalley's activation, cuz Valley isn't active yet.
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Nemessie on Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:20 am

    Makes sense but now I only get more confused...what do the other admins have to say?
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    kowalski
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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  kowalski on Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:03 am

    The official ruling is this:
    If "Mystical Space Typhoon" is chained to "Geartown", "Mystical Space Typhoon" resolves first and destroys "Geartown" at Chain Link 2. Then, "Geartown" resolves without effect as Chain Link 1. Since it still resolves, the destruction of "Geartown" is not the last thing to happen, so you miss the timing and cannot activate the effect of "Geartown".[1]

    No more discussion on this issue, this is NOT a Geartown rulings thread...This is a topic about a little more advanced tip and do not spam it with irrelavent questions that should be posted in other sub-forums...


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    Re: Missing the timing: Taking Advantage

    Post  Reaper of the Cards on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:54 pm

    Zane Frost wrote:And no, Geartown cannot cause itself to miss timing, since it has to remain face-up on the field in order to resolve, and since MST destroys it, it won't resolve, meaning it can summon a Ancient Gear.

    Plain wrong, ruling from wikia is in the post above. Mystical doesn't negate. I think we've all heard this a million times. Geartown still resolves.

    Thread is locked, as it is not something to be answered and now it is spammed. Focus should be on the Opening Post only.


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